In episode # 143, Dr. Reese sits down with veteran therapist, author and coach, Dr. Rosie Kuhn to talk about enlightened living. In this recording, they discuss why we are already enlightened, mindfulness training, aging like a guru, cleaning data and more! Plus - Dr. Rosie talks about her 3 experiences going through the dark night of the soul!
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Dr. Reese: (01:29)
Welcome to the podcast.
Dr. Rosie: (01:30)
Thank you, Dr. Reese. Nice to meet you in person.
Dr. Reese: (01:34)
How would you describe enlightened living?
Dr. Rosie: (01:39)
Ooh, I like that question. Number one, I believe that we are already enlightened. I, I believe that we are divine beings in this human experience. And so enlightened living is cultivating the capacity to know ourselves, just even a little bit more as a, a person of consciousness, a person of intelligence, and our willingness to move that from where we are in our belief systems and where we're limited and constrained to something a little bit higher than that. So enlightened living is the willingness and the to grow that capacity to go, oh, oh, oh, in those moments of the aha the insights, but then taking it to the next level of training ourselves to sustain that, that awareness, the, you know, the, in a sense, there's a transcendent experience and we can then train ourselves to stay at that level. Mm. And that's what most of us are challenged to do is train ourselves, as Yoda says, train ourselves to let go of what we're afraid to lose. Mm
Dr. Reese: (02:48)
It's. Yeah. You gotta love Yoda knowledge. I mean,
Dr. Rosie: (02:51)
Oh my God,
Dr. Reese: (02:52)
George Lucas really threw some gems in there.
Dr. Rosie: (02:55)
Yep. And he got a lot of his stuff from Joseph Campbell, which makes sense when you know who Joseph Campbell is for people.
Dr. Reese: (03:03)
Yeah. A lot of Buddhist and Dallas principles in there, stoicism maybe as well. Yep. Gearing yourself up to lose what you're scared to lose. Why are we so scared to, to lose things?
Dr. Rosie: (03:18)
Our perception of change is uncertainty and loss, and we are attached to what we're told. We should be attached to. We're attached to what is our comfort zone, even though it may create suffering and pain. We're attached to that because we know the certainty of that. It's the uncertainty that we are attempting to avoid and ignore and distract ourselves from. We think that we know it all. We think we've got it set. You know, if I've got this job or this career, you know, you know this, you know that this is gonna be the track and it's gonna be great. And then all of a sudden something happens or, and whether it's COVID or something or an illness or something, it's like, wait, I don't know how to do me in that. And that's the big deal. And whether it's in relationships or work or money or whatever, it's like outside of my comfort zone, I don't know how to do me. And so I'm gonna work really hard to stay where I know how to do me and let the rest of it.
Dr. Reese: (04:23)
Uncertainty scares the snot out of people. That's where anxiety comes from. Right. Pretty much.
Dr. Rosie: (04:30)
Yeah. To me, I, I, I, I realized that when I was going through what I call a spiritual immersion process, sort of the dark night of the soul kind of thing, that this anxiety would like, whew, come in. And it's like, what are you doing here? And it's like, I'm keeping you from blah, blah, blah. It's like, yeah, you are like the, the wall that keeps me from knowing what's possible. You're saying, oh no, you can't go there. You can't go there. You can't go there. But the truth is, is that when I can see that for what it is, is this wall that's there to not protect me, but that ego sense that to protect itself, then I can lower it and then begin to get more comfortable crossing that threshold. It takes faith in something other than what we're trained to have faith in. We're trained to have faith in the consensus view of reality. We're trained to have faith in what other people tell us we should do. We have faith in our politics or our, you know, economic systems and our academic system. We have all faith in all that. And we aren't trained to have faith in something beyond that. So that's what, what part of the what's scary?
Dr. Reese: (05:43)
Well, you just said a big term that comes up on this podcast a lot. And that's the dark night of the soul.
Dr. Rosie: (05:50)
Dr. Reese: (05:52)
I had a seven month episode. How about yourself? What's your experience with that?
Dr. Rosie: (06:00)
I've had three, one when I was in my adolescence, one when I was in my thirties and then one when I was in my, my sixties. Hmm. The last one, yeah, I'm basically saying is last 10 to 10 years now when people say, oh my God, I would never be able to do that. You get clearer about what's being required in terms of the learning opportunities. That's why I, I, and I have a podcast called spiritual immersion, taking the plunge and it's that, there's nothing as, you know, it's like, there's nowhere to go. There's nothing to do there. Can't fix it. So what are you gonna do? You're gonna start to explore. What's true here. What's real here. What's who am I in this? How am I being? And what am I attached to? We start asking all those questions so that we can get to know who we are in this, as this spiritual being in this human being human experience, or as a witness or as a whatever we're observing in ourselves as we're doing this.
Dr. Rosie: (06:59)
So the last one actually, and that was, you know, in a sense, when I was in my, in my adolescence, I had no consciousness. I had no support. I had nothing to help me through that. And I just had to grin and bear it through until it was over. And then I went back to normal life. And when I was in my thirties, I had, I went as a therapist. And so I had some consciousness about the process. So I was able to be much more nurturing and nourishing and aware of that. And then the third time had gone through, you know, my, the degree is in transpersonal, psychology, my PhD, and all kinds of spiritual experiences and trainings. So by the time this one came in, it was like, okay, we're going in, but not going in like, you know Indiana Jones kind of thing. It was like I wrote a book called the unholy path of a reluctant adventure. Mm. So it's like taking those little steps, little steps, little steps is because that's all we can do, whether we're in a dark night of soul or just getting through today.
Dr. Reese: (08:03)
Yeah. It's just one day at a time,
Dr. Rosie: (08:05)
One day at a time or one moment at a time. So when you're in those excruciating scary, horrible, terrible, no place to go kind of moments. Stan gruff talks about it as hell, no way out in terms of the birthing process, then it's like, what do you do? How, how do I be me in this? And that's what, that's what it's all about.
Dr. Reese: (08:28)
So the one in your thirties, how did you continue taking clients while you were going through it?
Dr. Rosie: (08:37)
First of all, I had to keep working. I had, so the, the short version CNN version is I got married early, had children early divorced. And when I divorced, it made sense for me to leave my kids with their dad so that I could get my degree or get my work and then have them come live with me. That was the plan. And so that's what I did. And I sort of went into a state of denial, cuz I was going, they're in a safe place. They're home, they're in their own beds. They have their family, they have all that. I'm good. I can make this happen. So what happened is I actually had gone into denial of the loss of my motherhood, the loss of my kids, loss of all that stuff, just denial. And in terms of that emotional. So in the thirties, what happened is I, a boyfriend broke up, but what it did is it just shattered all my armoring and I had to deal with the, the, the grief and the loss of my children, of my motherhood, of a reality that I thought was gonna ha all that stuff.
Dr. Rosie: (09:43)
So that that was about six months. I mean, some of it as you is like, you just have, there would be these sparks of opening. But for me to keep working was a really important component of this process. And I, I just did a, a YouTube live on dark night of the soul spirituality in the dark night of soul and basically saying here's the six things, 7, 8, 9, 10 things to do to get yourself through this. And part of it is do something that's productive, if you can, or creative, definitely creative. I did I paint and knit and do all kinds of stuff. So creativity is really important, drinking, resting but getting out of the way of self hate and self self abuse for that, you know, you should, you should be able to work. You should be able to, you should be able to, and just like, hell no, this is, this is big work. And, and I, I want everyone to know that it's most likely gonna happen to you for in whatever way it happens and how to be with it in a way that's like, you don't feel so. I don't know if you used the word fucked up on this show.
Dr. Reese: (10:57)
Dr. Rosie: (11:00)
But that, that sense of being fucked up and no, no way out, but that this is actually a very normal process for most of us though. We hide it, hide it or ignore it.
Dr. Reese: (11:13)
Isn't it interesting how it's almost, almost everyone I've talked to that has been in it. It's triggered by loss.
Dr. Rosie: (11:20)
Dr. Reese: (11:21)
And then grief comes
Dr. Rosie: (11:23)
Dr. Reese: (11:24)
When I wa you know, when I was going through it, I, I was grieving from my parents and they're still alive.
Dr. Rosie: (11:30)
Dr. Reese: (11:32)
. And I was like, what's happening?
Dr. Rosie: (11:35)
How do you make sense of that? It's it's and unless you're, you know, as a, as a spiritual or a transformational coach, I love being with people in these. What, what seems like it's insanity? Why would I be, why would I be grieving my parent? You know, it's like, it's like, I don't know, but that's, what is the business of that is mm-hmm, in a sense, the gift where we can honor the business of it, as opposed to going, yeah, well, that's really stupid, but maybe what you're really grieving is, you know, and then fill in the blank. It's like, no, it's like, this is what's true. This is honoring. Yeah. Respecting that.
Dr. Reese: (12:09)
So I'm, I'm considering myself pretty lucky because, or blessed because, you know, I went through it at 41 and I had all this spiritual, I had a spiritual practice leading up to it. Mm-Hmm so it was kind of obvious. And what it did was is it, it forced me to open. And so now what I do is I work on it every day.
Dr. Rosie: (12:40)
Dr. Reese: (12:41)
And so my goal, if you will, is to never have to really go through it again, because I, I work on it every day. Now, maybe I will. I don't know. And if it does, so be it, if it happens again, so be it, bring it on. But if, if you keep working on yourself and keep opening every day, every day, and you keep working on yourself, maybe you won't have to go through it again. I don't know. That's
Dr. Rosie: (13:06)
Right. That's right. That's right. Someone
Dr. Reese: (13:09)
Needs to check in on me 30 years from now and ask me, you know,
Dr. Rosie: (13:13)
And I, I mean, it's not like a, I mean, I, I, I totally agree with you. I think that the work that I do every single day is really important. And to realize that every single circumstance that shows up is an opportunity for self awareness, self revelation, and enlighten, enlightened living. My relationship with my daughter is constantly, you know, because she was raised with me. And so she's has her reality. I have my reality and we're, we're in this dance of relationship. And it's just like a, it's a, it's just like kidding my head up against the wall, but not because she should be, or I should be, but what's the attachments that are happening inside me that has this be what it is in me that creates the suffering and the, you know, the sadness or the grief. It's like, what are my attachments in here that are making it so difficult?
Dr. Rosie: (14:09)
And when we can ask ourselves those questions, because every circumstance that challenges us, whether it's COVID or Russia, or, you know, snow, snow, or whatever it is, and we go, damn it I'm upset. It's like, okay, what am I attached to? What are my attachments in this moment? And it's taken me to, okay, I wanna be a mom. I've always wanted to be a mom. It's like, okay. And your attachment here is, and you know, so taking it out of the, looking at my context, what does that mean? What does that look like? And that's where if we can do that with ourselves or with a support person or listening to you, or me and our podcasts and stuff, it's like, people go, oh yeah, I get it. I am, I'm not asking that question yet.
Dr. Reese: (14:54)
It's mindfulness essentially.
Dr. Rosie: (14:56)
Dr. Reese: (14:58)
Just keep taking inventory on what's going on with you. Keep auditing yourself, cuz the mind does what the heck it wants to do based off of its patterns and programming
Dr. Rosie: (15:08)
Dr. Reese: (15:09)
And then it creates emotions.
Dr. Rosie: (15:11)
Dr. Reese: (15:12)
and hurt. It's a phenomenon. It's it's people get caught in that dream based reality and they throw a label on it called mental health issues. It, it can turn into this cycle where, you know, they, they might go to a therapist and they might be at the therapist for 10 or 20 years constantly in victim orientated, digging unless you get the right therapist that knows exactly, you know, mindfulness or cognitive behavior therapy or something like that, that, that can get them out of it.
Dr. Rosie: (15:49)
Yeah. I was trained as a marriage and family therapist and in the eighties, it wasn't controlled by the state or the country. You know, some thing that said you had to do based on diagnosis and all of those kinds of things. It was a really about human beings in relation to human beings. And I went to Nova Scotia and worked in recovery and it was really great, a really great situation because I didn't have that structure of mental health, you know, and I, I I've always been on the, on the outside of that, that structure, if you will. The mental health unit was in the, on the first floor and we, as the recovery, people were on the second floor. But what I realized was as a therapist, I wasn't trained to be with spirituality and, and the, and working with, and this is when I was just a, a newbie in as a therapist, I was working with recover people in recovery and it's like, they had something I didn't have.
Dr. Rosie: (16:47)
And they had something in this, in this 12 step program that we need in therapy. We need a, a, a reality of spiritual, the spiritual world or spiritual self in relation to our human self. And that was missing. And that's what took me from being in Nova Scotia to California in inevitably to get my PhD in transpersonal psychology. Hmm. Because that's missing even now in the DSM it's, there's like this much information about spirituality and spiritual emergence or immersion or those everything we're talking about. So even mindfulness, when I'm talking to people who are in mindfulness training, they're still not being mindful. , they're being theoretical in their heads and the theory of my, but to be really present it, it takes training. It takes training. You know what I'm saying? Mm-Hmm
Dr. Reese: (17:45)
it does. It takes work, takes a lot of people don't wanna do the other thing with the dark night is you, you, there is this feeling of, am I going crazy? Mm-Hmm
Dr. Rosie: (17:57)
Dr. Reese: (17:58)
and that's one of the big fears of a human being is just completely yeah. The joker and Batman, right? Yes.
Dr. Rosie: (18:09)
Ooh. One of the books I would like to write, I don't know that it will get written because basically all my books are downloaded. I mean, they just, they write themselves. I don't know. You've got four books. Do you find that, have you found that, that your books write themselves?
Dr. Reese: (18:25)
Yeah. Number six is being worked on right now.
Dr. Rosie: (18:28)
Dr. Reese: (18:28)
Excellent. Yeah. I, I don't know if I'd call it a download, but a lot of the writing happens in the head. Yeah. Yeah. Before, before even getting to the, to the keyboard.
Dr. Rosie: (18:39)
Yeah. Yeah. But I would like to write a book about insanity and not in terms the insanity of the mental health description, but what it is inside of us that we have to cope with every single day that we don't let ourselves even consider. Like that is really insane. , you know, war at this time of our reality, that is insane. But living with and coping and straight, you know, how do we be with the insanity of relationships? People betray us lie, break promises, you know, parents don't show up or whatever that it is that creates that insanity, that in essence creates anxiety, cuz it's like, oh, it's gonna happen again. But the, the everyday insanities are so hard on our humanness. And I think that's part of what is the benefit of a dark night of the soul is you really get to go, wow. That world is really insane to live that way and to live in the promises that the corporate world or the pharma world or the medical world or the political world that, that we're gonna be saved and that we're safe. And if I get married or if I have a, whatever that that's gonna save me and then all of the things that show up afterwards, it's insane.
Dr. Reese: (19:59)
Couldn't it just all be deleted if we just make everything okay.
Dr. Rosie: (20:06)
, everything's great. That it's all good. Right. It's all good. And I know you you do some work with oh, ho Pono Pono.
Dr. Reese: (20:17)
Yes. I'm I'm a practitioner. Yeah.
Dr. Rosie: (20:19)
And one of the things I love about listening to Dr. LAN is that he says, Hey, no data, no data. And that's a huge practice to, is to go. Yeah, no that, that, no, no data about that. No data about that. No da and being able to clear, and the mindfulness then becomes like, okay, that's where I'm entering data into my, into my download and my system, or as in the law of attraction, Abraham Hicks say we are in a world of attraction. Our universe is a world of attraction, but we live in a world of, we create this world of assertions, which is we keep adding the data back in doesn't work.
Dr. Reese: (21:03)
Yeah. Dr. He lens is just keep cleaning, cleaning, cleaning. I know.
Dr. Rosie: (21:07)
Dr. Reese: (21:07)
Know because we, we don't know how deep this subconscious mind is. There's no way to humanly know. Nope. It's so far beyond our scope. Yeah. Yep. Even a so called enlightened person doesn't know. Nope.
Dr. Rosie: (21:24)
Nope. I've been working with Paul SIGs work. And are you familiar with Paul SEG? I'm
Dr. Reese: (21:29)
Dr. Rosie: (21:30)
Well, he he channels Melek or what they call it, the guides and it's, it's in essence the same, you know, that we have this capacity to be in our higher knowing and I, in an instant, when I'm working with people, I can, I can ask a question and they're in it in a second in a heartbeat, but to Suay there and, and sustain that is first of all, getting aware of that, but then going, choosing it over and over again. And, but the point is that they, I mean, are in that same place where Dr. Hulen is, and it's like, you know, we gotta let go of all this small self stuff, the data that we keep living as if it's true to let in what we don't yet, what we don't know. But the more I do that, and I'm sure this is true for you. I would suspect it's true for you. I don't know. It's amazing what shows up, the more that I let go of whatever that stuff I'm attached to stuff comes in. That's like, oh my God. And, and spiritual teaching tell us that all the time, but we don't realize it until it's, until it starts happening. We go, there it is.
Dr. Reese: (22:43)
Yeah. Synchronicity just all over the place. It happened to me just last week or the week before I I'm working on a new program with a clinic I'm opening up and it has to do with pain. In fact, pain is in the title it's piece, over pain. I love that. And I'm reading a marketing book and, you know, the, you know, the marketers give examples, right. They to better teach and he starts giving an example of a pain clinic. And the program that I'm working on is 120 days. Okay. And he mentioned the pain clinic on page one 20, and I just had to throw, I just had to throw the book in air and be like, all right. Okay. I'm I'm on the right track.
Dr. Rosie: (23:30)
Excellent. awesome. Awesome
Dr. Reese: (23:34)
Stuff like that happens all the time.
Dr. Rosie: (23:36)
Dr. Reese: (23:37)
Dr. Rosie: (23:38)
Yeah. And a lot of times people will say it never happens to me. And it's like, let's, let's look at that. Let's see what you're looking at. It never happens here. It never happens here. It never happens here. It's like, what if you, like, when's the last time you remember something happening to you? Like, let's start looking at, oh, the there was cereal in the cereal box. Wow. And we start looking at where it is as opposed to where it's not. So part of our reality that we create for most of us is that we, so for instance, a client says, love never comes to me. It's like, oh, well, that's an interesting thought, but let's look at where it is coming in. Just as an example, as an experiment for the next two weeks, I want you to notice where love comes to you.
Dr. Rosie: (24:27)
You know, her dog wags the tail, her, her children come in from school and say, hi mom, whatever that is where love does come in, or currency does flow in. We generally deny. Yeah. That's just that though. But that's just that as opposed to saying, yeah, no, that's love coming in. That's love coming in. That's synchronicity. Yes. There and there and there. And the more we notice, the more it comes in. Right. Does that make, is that your experience? The more we say yes to yes. As opposed to yeah. That works for you guys that works for you, Dr. Kevin and Dr. Rosie. It works for you guys because it's like, yeah, no, it works for you too. It's that training ourselves to it's the training and the, the
Dr. Reese: (25:13)
Discipline. My, my understanding is that love surrounds us. Mm-Hmm and it's all about if you're open or closed.
Dr. Rosie: (25:20)
Dr. Reese: (25:23)
And so if you're closed, then you don't, you don't feel it. Maybe you can, if you hook up with a, a partner or something like that, but you can make a case that that's bonding and not love.
Dr. Rosie: (25:38)
Yes, absolutely. I, when I looked at your, your information and when I looked at your, the saw the clinic, that piece over pain, it's like, that is like the absolute truth. I mean, it's love over pain and, but you use peace because, and I think that's so, so important because we are constantly saying, we want peace. We want peace, but we have to learn to create it within ourselves in a way that is what you're saying. It's like, you're in, you're in peace. Or you're not. I was talking to some clients yesterday and they've been in recovery for 7, 8, 9 years. And we were talking about their business and I do business coaching. And as well as everything else I do. But in the realms of that, it's like I was, we were talking about this, blah, blah, blah. And I said, so what, you know, what, what are you gonna practice?
Dr. Rosie: (26:30)
And he said, I'm gonna practice making time for serenity and peace. I'm gonna find I'm, I'm gonna make time to find serenity. And I said, hold on here. I said, I want you to do something for me. And there was two of them sitting there. I said, I want you to close your eyes and bring yourself into serenity. And when you're there, just raise a finger or a hand. And he went, okay, I'm there. And I said, okay, how long did that take you? He said, not even a second. It's like, so you are going to go find it when it's already here. Yep. But so it's already here. The, the love is already here. The piece is already here.
Dr. Reese: (27:15)
It's already here.
Dr. Rosie: (27:16)
And it's all that data. It's like, yes, but what about, where's the money? Where's the person. But it's like, no, the piece is already here. And when we can cultivate that, and that's why I love your, your, the name of your clinic, because it's like, thank you. The pain dissipates, the healing occurs spontaneously.
Dr. Reese: (27:38)
Yeah. When you're in mindfulness and great acceptance, I mean, pain pain just becomes a teacher, you know, , that's right. You could have a, a horribly painful, bad back. That's just ruining your life. But that doesn't mean that you have to mentally suffer on top of it.
Dr. Rosie: (28:00)
Dr. Reese: (28:00)
It's a choice.
Dr. Rosie: (28:02)
Dr. Reese: (28:02)
Right. And that's why I named it piece over pain. And just, it's a choice. It's right there in the title. It's a choice. that's
Dr. Rosie: (28:09)
Right. And that the, the level to which I you know, I've been in the field of transformation for 20 some years, but I'm just getting the alchemy that happens through this transformative process. I mean, it's like, you know, the, the caterpillar and the cocoon that's alchemy. But when we are shifting our mindset in the research says this, and Bruce Lipton says this, and Joe spends, everybody's saying this, when we change our mindset, it's alchemy begins to happen. The manifestation of something different healing takes place in our body. But it, it was when it was like, yeah, alchemy, no, that's those special guys out there. The, the mystic benefit. It's like, hell no. It's like every single one of us,
Dr. Reese: (28:57)
Dr. Rosie: (28:58)
Everyone. And that's the exciting thing thing about this work. And I'm pointing to you. And to me is the work that so many people are doing is they're bringing in this, this knowing of this capacity and we're living it and holding that space, creating that space for that, that knowing like it's a matter of fact, right. Just a matter of fact. Yeah. And in that it people go, oh, it's a matter of fact. Okay. And we start to generate more and more awareness and truth in that. So that's, for me really exciting and fun.
Dr. Reese: (29:38)
So how do you age like a guru?
Dr. Rosie: (29:42)
Ooh. The same, the same way as what we're talking about is looking at here, here's who I am and here's, here's my fears. Here's what I'm attached to. Here's the way I want it to be and going, okay, just time out. Let's just be here now and be with what is, and, and in that sense of, again, there's those attachments and then there's release or freedom or liberation or enlightenment or whatever, where we're in that state of grace and that state of grace, the state of peace, the state of serenity. And so if I'm really wanting this state of, of, of grace in my aging process, then I have to keep looking at what am I what's coming in that is interfering with that state of grace, that state of mindfulness and presence. I'm turning 70 in one month from today.
Dr. Rosie: (30:44)
and that is like this big, like the whole world just kind of goes, okay, she's 70. Now she's old. Like the, I was, I did an interview with some people in this woman who had some very powerful, psychic ability. She, she said, as soon as I said that, about this 70 thing, she said, this whole download, this matrix came in of how that is so true in our reality, like, okay, now she's old and now you're limited. And now you have to watch where you walk and now you gotta go see your doctor, and now you gotta all this stuff, right? You gotta watch your money and you gotta, and it's like, it's like, that's that matrix, that consensus view of reality, that just kind of drops in and it's like, you gotta get, stay mindful of, wait a second. That's not true. There are people who are living in their hundreds and happily and, and healthily.
Dr. Rosie: (31:36)
That's not true that it has to be that way. It's not true that I have to start going to the doctor and getting medical examinations. It's not true that I have to, you know, be more wise with my, my money, but all that stuff that's limiting and scary. And and so being mindful again, using that word, the mindful of how am I being in this moment as a human being we're aging from the time we become a zygote to well eternally, right? I mean, in terms of this, this body process. And so the, the process of aging, you know, when we turn 18 and we go, Woohoo, you know, sex hormones are yeah. 13 or whatever that starts, but, but you know, that aging process, or now we're, I get to retire all now I get to, in all of those things, it's like, we're always in the aging process, but it's what our context says to us about it, what we listen to and believe.
Dr. Reese: (32:36)
Yeah. Well said. And I, I think, you know, I, I see, you know, my parents getting overwhelmed 72 and 75, just, it it's, it's a lot for seniors particularly ones that are in lower consciousness that don't practice mindfulness, and then, then comes the big harsh reality, which is being afraid to die.
Dr. Rosie: (33:01)
Dr. Reese: (33:02)
Right. That's the big one, because that's the ultimate loss.
Dr. Rosie: (33:05)
That's the ultimate loss.
Dr. Reese: (33:06)
That's the, that's, that's, that's, it that's worse than losing your home or your car. So, you know, people get really frightened.
Dr. Rosie: (33:17)
Dr. Reese: (33:19)
What to do.
Dr. Rosie: (33:20)
Dr. Reese: (33:21)
Age like a guru
Dr. Rosie: (33:22)
age, like a guru. And, you know, the, the truth is, is that a large number of people, actually, the research says a large number of people begin to cultivate a relationship with their spirituality in later in life. And, and it makes sense because I mean, first it's, it's really challenging to stay mindful when you've gotta clean up spilled milk or diapers that are, or, you know the boss or the traffic, or it's, it's very challenging to have a life that's mindful in the midst of all that. It's very challenging. It's not, it's not like it's not true because I talk about parent like a guru, you know, talking about cultivating spirituality in our children. And that, I mean, I, those are some of the books that I've written. So it's not it's it's how do we create that mindfulness, but as we're aging, in a sense, the inevitability of, okay, I'm, I'm dying.
Dr. Rosie: (34:16)
The, the ultimate frontier, the UN ultimate UN uncertainty is facing me. And what I wanna do about that, how do I wanna be with that? Do I wanna be more I'll use the word enlightened, but more aware and more conscious and more conscious at choice about that? Or am I going to be a victim? Oh my goodness. To the aging and dying process. I, you know, I am very clear. I plan to die in my bed like sleeping. I'm just, I'm not sick. I'm not, I'm totally, absolutely healthy. And it's just the day to go gone that I don't have to buy into, oh, you're gonna get sick and dementia. And it's like, you can, we can create that. I believe. And we could also create the reality that says, no, I, I'm not planning on going that way. And being mindful about how I work as best I can to create that reality that I'm intending.
Dr. Reese: (35:17)
So you're alluding to, I believe a sort of a, a, a, a Yogi type of skill where you can create death sort of on the spot in a way. Is, is there,
Dr. Rosie: (35:38)
Well, I'm not, I'm not talking about, I mean, I don't have any intentions to just like, go, yeah, I'm ready to go tonight. Set
Dr. Reese: (35:45)
The clock, disappear like Yoda .
Dr. Rosie: (35:47)
Yeah, no, I don't mean that. I just mean that, you know, I mean, I'll be around for as long as I'm around, but there are people who, you know, go work in the garden and then come in and they lay down, take a nap and they don't get up. They just tie, they've had a beautiful day playing in the yard or whatever, and they just lay down or watching TV and they just they're done. And, and so I'm not saying I'm choosing that Yogi thing. Okay. I'm just saying that I, we think, oh, when you get the, the, the decline and decrepitude.
Dr. Reese: (36:19)
Dr. Rosie: (36:20)
It's all downhill from 40 basically on but you know, it's like, now it's 70. It's like, oh, it's all downhill 70. And then people in eighties, like, you know, and then my dad was in his nineties when he died. And he was vital till six months before he died, which was awesome. And so that vitality is, I, I don't, I'm not planning or intending or keep, or again, this is that data of, oh, you get old and you get sick and your mind goes, or people will say, oh I'm not sleeping well, it's because I'm getting old. Or I have, I have pains in my body because I'm getting old. So all of these things that they say, because I'm getting old, it's not the truth.
Dr. Reese: (37:11)
Dr. Rosie: (37:12)
And so that's the, that's the stuff that, you know, I'm not, you know, I'm not like, I mean, I love what I do in terms of aging, like a guru work and talking about it, but it's like, it is not that that's causing you pain and suffering and emotional, whatever, you know, it's because you are in here doing this and let's take some of that ageism thing off the, off the, the pressure of what's happening to you so that you can be more present to what is as opposed to, oh, it's aging.
Dr. Reese: (37:45)
Yeah. I, I get that in my, in my field as well. You know, somebody with knee hurt, you know, sore knees and, oh, I'm aging. And I say, well, how, old's your other knee? ,
Dr. Rosie: (37:56)
That's a good question. ,
Dr. Reese: (37:58)
You know, and that's
Dr. Rosie: (38:00)
Dr. Reese: (38:01)
Yeah. We, we just gotta take care of ourselves. And that includes our mind.
Dr. Rosie: (38:05)
Yeah. Yeah. I I saw some video and I don't know what it was that was maybe it was what the bleep, but it was, it was about how, when we don't take care of ourselves emotionally. And so we stuff, things, and ignore and avoid and distract and deny that stuff just stays in us. And it takes room. It takes propri, I think is the big word where it kind of clogs up the places where the healthy stuff can come in. It clogs us up. And so that energy, what we call emotion, it's just like, it creates a stuckness. And so we can't heal that BEC we can't let the good stuff in because we're holding onto the, that emotional energy. And so when we begin to let it go and let it go and let it go. Now we have room for vitality. Now we have room for the propri receptors to work the way they're supposed to work and all the rest of it. So,
Dr. Reese: (39:05)
Yeah, there's a lot of clearing practices. People have chakra stuff and, and, and whole Pono Pono. We just, you know, do our stuff and just kind of do it on the spot.
Dr. Rosie: (39:17)
Yep. Yep. Every moment, every moment, every moment, every moment.
Dr. Reese: (39:23)
Dr. Rosie: (39:24)
It's, it's a, this being a human being is big work. We don't realize it. We don't realize it until we realize it. Like this is big shit.
Dr. Reese: (39:35)
Dr. Rosie: (39:36)
There's a guy named Christian Sunburg have you come across him yet? No. No. So he's he wrote a book and on YouTube he's been interviewed by a lot of people where he remembers time between lives. He remembers how he chose to come back into this reality, how, you know, he met this being on, you know, between sort of, well, just call it
Dr. Rosie: (40:08)
And , and you are big, beautiful, big you that. And the guy I basically to earth and I did this work and it was really scary, but I did it and I ascended and, you know, blah, blah, blah. And Christian said, I'm gonna do on it. And so he tells a story about how he said he trained himself, got ready, came into a, a woman's body. And in the process of coming in, he felt the denseness and denseness and denseness, and it was too much. He said, I can't do this. And so he left, he felt really guilty about that and worked it out on the other side and said, I still wanna do it. So he came back in and, and so this lifetime is obviously when he's talking about this process and what he's been going through, but he also talks about how out, how the truth about this exquisiteness and the challenges of being this spiritual being in this human experiences. You know, Dave Paul Selleck talks about this and you know, of course in miracles and all kinds of people or talk, talk about, we are here in this, in this being to work things out. We're not here just to, you know, have all the fun we you're willing to have. I mean, that's sort of the objective, but to get there is a lot of work and it's, it's excruciating, I call it excruciating exquisitely. Excruciating.
Dr. Reese: (41:38)
Yeah. Yeah. The movie, the Pixar movie soul mm-hmm has a really nice format of that, you know? Nice, nice story of that. And, you know, if we go back to the subconscious mind and we don't know how deep it is, then you throw past lives into the mix.
Dr. Rosie: (42:01)
Dr. Reese: (42:01)
Now we're talking some heavy stuff here, so that's right. You know, is it possible that if someone's going through a tough time there's data and their subconscious from five lives ago, because they were murdered by a Viking or something like,
Dr. Rosie: (42:17)
Or they murdered a Viking or what, you know? Yes. And I, I come across that in my work all the time with, with clients, it's like, this is not going away. And this is a pattern that started before. It's like, Hey, let's, let's talk about it. See what that's about. And I also used the book oneness, which is a transcribed piece from a woman named Russia. And I hate when I do this, cuz I, I give that and then I forget what I was gonna say, but were we just talking about, oh, there talk about parallel lives. So they're saying, there's us here now. But then there's the parallel. There's, there's all these other parts of ourselves that are having other lives and they're looking at us and going, you are the high truth, you're the high, you know, but we're affected by these other lives that are happening. And what the process is, is we're all in, we're integrating all of it into, you know, a singular unit of divine spark. Yeah. But that it's, that it's not only just, you know, and, and basically, basically they say, people have said like four or 5% is all we're conscious of, of our whole being it's four or 5%. We got, we got a lot of unconsciousness there. Oh,
Dr. Reese: (43:33)
Going, oh yeah. Oh yeah. And who knows what's going on there
Dr. Rosie: (43:37)
And who knows? And the more I turn it over and go, I'm not the boss here. I don't have a, you know, more, I, the more I can acknowledge that I don't have a clue. The better life gets
Dr. Reese: (43:50)
My, yeah. My understanding is that it's almost like there's a DVR in all of us. Mm-Hmm and it's just recording. Yes. You, you know, you know how people, you know, like an atheist will debate with a religious person and be like, wow. So you think there's a guy in the sky that can just look over billions of people. My rebuttal of that would be, no, you have a DVR in you that's recording everything. and if somebody wants to play it, they can. that's my response, because I have to think that's where the whole life flash, before your eyes comes from
Dr. Rosie: (44:30)
Dr. Reese: (44:32)
Somebody almost dies or somebody does die. They have the flash before your eyes. That's the de that's the DVR playing like.
Dr. Rosie: (44:39)
Dr. Reese: (44:40)
Dr. Rosie: (44:43)
Dr. Reese: (44:45)
Dr. Rosie: (44:46)
I did some work with IBU gain. This was a number of years ago. I it's a plant medicine and it was phenomenal that the pictures of reality that flashed before me through this among other things, but this one moment where there was just this, like you said, this flash of who I am and it was like, wow, that's amazing. , that's amazing. Yeah. That there's so much that, you know, and, and the more, again, more I let go and the more I empower people to empower themselves to let go, the more wonder shows up, the more mystical magical life is more beauty. It's it's, that's the fun thing. And see what's showing, gonna show up is rather than us being so afraid. And that's our, what we've been taught to be afraid. We've been taught and trained to be afraid, but as we go, okay, I can't have that life that I want that I say, I want, I can't have that love. I can't have that peace. I can't have that freedom from pain, as long as I stay so attached to fear as my, as my compass, as my north.
Dr. Reese: (46:05)
Yeah. It's just a survival mechanism,
Dr. Rosie: (46:07)
Just a survival mechanism. But we don't know any different, cuz we're not, we're trained. trained. Like of course you wanna survive. So listen to your fear. It's like, well, okay, I get that. Totally. And I struggle with that in some ways, every day, some element of fear that I go, what
Dr. Reese: (46:30)
It's fades, starting to fade for me.
Dr. Rosie: (46:32)
Dr. Reese: (46:34)
It's it's just so much work. It's just, so you gotta go through so much in order to get there.
Dr. Rosie: (46:41)
Is it as much work for you now as it was?
Dr. Reese: (46:49)
It's it's just more constant it's every day. Yeah. Yeah. Every day, even if I can't fit a meditation in it's still every day, because you know, I gotta deal with mom or I gotta deal with a client or, I mean, there's so many, there's so many opportunities to let go. It's a constant game to let go.
Dr. Rosie: (47:15)
Dr. Reese: (47:16)
It's a game. It's just, you're just in the game and there. And it's like, how mu how much can I let go?
Dr. Rosie: (47:23)
Dr. Reese: (47:24)
Right. This person really upset me. Okay. How, you know, how do I let this go? And then the next time they upset you, oh, it's a little less. And oh, next thing you know, it's gone. It's like, you just keep going and going and going. Yep.
Dr. Rosie: (47:40)
Yep. And it cut. That brings me back to Yoda's thing. Train yourself to let go of what you're afraid to lose is when that person upsets you and you go, yeah. But I have a right to be upset. I have a right to have blah, blah, blah. And it's like, okay, so what's higher, your higher knowing what's your higher truth right now, your right to be right. Or the relationship or peace. What what is your highest, do you wanna be right? Or do you want peace? It's like yeah, no, I want both. And I talk a lot in my YouTube videos, but also I do the spiritual dilemmas. Like that's the spiritual dilemma I want to be. Right. I have a right to be right. But, but I want peace. How do, how do we do that? And that's, that's what I love about this. The
Dr. Reese: (48:34)
Work we make a choice,
Dr. Rosie: (48:36)
We have to make a choice. Yeah. But what do I do with my, what do I do with my right? I wanna be right. Who am I, if I'm not right.
Dr. Reese: (48:42)
It really is a choice. Yeah. That's, that's the, that's the thing about the whole thing that's so paradoxical. Yeah. Is that it's a choice, but we're programmed not to make the choice.
Dr. Rosie: (48:54)
That's right. so a lot of my, I I have a book, a little ebook called fierce compassion becoming a, an agent of transformation and it's sort of the manual. And I say sort of a manual because I haven't finished it yet. But part one is a U is on, on Amazon as a ebook, fierce compassion. But I talk a lot about how, how are you choosing to choose what you choose? How are you choosing to choose what you choose?
Dr. Reese: (49:26)
Dr. Rosie: (49:27)
And, and it's like, I have to be right. Cuz who am I, if I'm not right. If I'm not right, I must be wrong. If I'm wrong. That makes me insignificant and stupid and an idiot and failure. And it's like, that kind of stuff is going on in our brains all the time. So it's like, well, how do you, how do you choose? Well, I don't wanna be an idiot. So I must, I gotta stick the right. It's like, that's, that's a way of choosing what you choose. Yeah. We, we have thousands of ways we do that. But asking that question, people wait going, no, you got too many choices in there. It's like, yeah, no, that's what we're doing all the time is choosing to choose. Do I wanna choose to be right? Or do I wanna choose to be pain free in essence? Mm.
Dr. Reese: (50:12)
Speaking of dilemmas.
Dr. Rosie: (50:13)
Dr. Reese: (50:15)
What's the dilemma in being in business.
Dr. Rosie: (50:19)
Ooh, I like that. The dilemma, the dilemmas of being in business are what shows up that it says like the business model says a, B and C, you know, powerful get out there, sell the, the, the, in a sense, the context that we hear all the time. So, so there on one side, it's, here's what the business context says. You can't, can't be personal. You've gotta work at whatever that work, work, work versus who are you in this? Who are you in the, the expression of you as this business, as this unfolding self and people go, oh, no, you can't do that and be in business.
Dr. Rosie: (51:07)
So in, in that particular book, I it's a, it it's, I think it's 20 or 30 different people that I've worked with who are in business either for themselves, or they worked in the corporation corporate world. One specific situation is there were this new startup, there were five engineers. And the CEO said, Hey, one of you guys is gonna be the vice president of that department. So rather than where they were a team now they're vying for that vice presidency. And they all got usually like that versus before they were like being a team. And so with each one of them, there was this dilemma, the ego came up and the fear came up. What if I don't get that? And what if he beats me out that versus who are you in this process? Who are you in, in, in this work that you do? How are you, how is this your work? How do we wanna cultivate you in bringing your best to this position versus the competitive, comparing back biting gating? So the dilemma is can we be in business and still be in our heartful self? Yeah.
Dr. Rosie: (52:28)
And make those decisions at this client that I mentioned earlier it comes up time and time again, where it's like, Hey, I'm thinking about hiring this guy. But when I met him, all he is, he's a sales guy, the guy they were thinking about hiring he's a sales guy. And, but all he did was talk. And I go, and how does that work for you? He goes, he's not listening. And I go, well, do you wanna hire somebody like that? And he goes, well, he might bring in the client that we really want. So that dilemma of fear based, he might be the one, but he, he isn't in alignment with the culture of this small business. Right. And so the dilemma is do you live in the culture and, and be an alignment with your integrity and your truth, right? Or do you compromise? And so that question is a constant for all of us.
Dr. Reese: (53:23)
Business is a heck of a game.
Dr. Rosie: (53:25)
Business is a heck of another game.
Dr. Reese: (53:28)
It is another game. It is, you know, when, when I started, you know, getting ready to open this clinic and get the book ready and all that jazz I asked my mentor, I was like, you know, what should I do that fears coming up? And he just, he said, just be okay to fail.
Dr. Rosie: (53:45)
That's it nice.
Dr. Reese: (53:47)
He's like, that's it. Then you can just do it with fun and ease
Dr. Rosie: (53:51)
. Yeah. And, and when I talk about a lot too with people who are looking at business and how do I get business, and I say, be the invitation and they go, what? And I go, how are you in a sense, what we're wanting, I think, through your work and coming to this place of peace is when we are in our essential, our natural divine expression of what's ours to do, or what is our contribution in the world? We're in that state of peace. And when we're in that, we become an at attract beam for people who want what we've got in a sense, right. As opposed to when I'm in a state of fear and resistance, like, Ooh, I'm afraid of this. And I'm afraid of that. And what if nobody wants this, then that sets me up. And I, and I'm acting from that, right?
Dr. Rosie: (54:43)
It has not been successful. My, my business has not been successful when I set it up based on, you know, here's what you want. And here's what I can give you. And all that stuff doesn't work for in my, and for me basically. And I don't think it works for anybody, but when we can be in an invitation and be the essential nature, be the essential, then something really amazing happens. And that's what this, these, this, these two people that I'm working and doing business coaching with, that's what we've been working on is here's his culture that he wants to create transparency, authenticity, integrity, basically, and people. And he comes up against these people come in and aren't an alignment, but the more he stays aligned this last week, he went to, to Dallas and met this company that a hundred million dollar company. And these people said, we're not about our product.
Dr. Rosie: (55:41)
We are about people. We are about integrity. We are about transparency. He, and they said exactly what my client has been holding as that aligned place. Mm. And in with that invitation of him being who he is in came this amazing possibility and some true, authentic connection between CEOs of a hundred million dollar company. But it's like real people to people, which is what he wants. So the more that we are in alignment with our truth and our, the clarity of, of that, we can go. Yeah. But is it gonna make money? Yeah. But it gonna, it's like, I don't know, but what doesn't happen when you're not in alignment is a lot of exhaustion managing people who are not in alignment and are trying to get you to do things that aren't in alignment.
Dr. Reese: (56:37)
And you have to be willing, especially in the social media era, you gotta be willing to have people not like you
Dr. Rosie: (56:43)
Dr. Reese: (56:44)
You say something polarizing or whatever. You gotta can't contract. Every time someone says, you're an idiot.
Dr. Rosie: (56:51)
That's right. Angela Angela says she was an anthropologist. She said at any given moment, 15, 50% of the people on the, on the planet are gonna love you. And 50% of the population are probably gonna hate you. So it's like, just be you. That's basically all that we can do. Hang on one second. Gracie. No Gracie. Nope. So and that's a big practice, isn't it just being you and going, well, I should bring in more of this because that's what people will want, but it's not an alignment with what I want, but it it'll bring in more people. Right. It's like, yeah, no, this is, this is my highest truth. My highest good, my highest knowing my highest contribution period, cuz that's what we're here to be. That expression expression of the divine.
Dr. Reese: (57:38)
So before I ask you my last question, where can people come find your work? Where can they come find you?
Dr. Rosie: (57:44)
They two places are really good. One is my website is called the paradigm shifts.com. You can Google me Rosie Koon, K U H, N. And lots of stuff comes up. You can find me on YouTube. I have lots and lots of videos on transformational coaching on spirituality, in business and spirituality and everything else, spiritual dilemmas. But I do, I just have a lot of stuff there. And I have a bootcamp there called inward bound bootcamp for self transformation. And it's just 20 videos and 10 minutes each about this process of self, self transformation and sort of the elements or increments the skills. So there can be some skill building in this process that we're talking about. And it's really fun. So that's there too.
Dr. Reese: (58:38)
Nice. So the last question is what are the top three most influential books that you read?
Dr. Rosie: (58:48)
Right now, what comes to mind is oneness course in miracles. Mm-Hmm and David Hawkins book, David Hawkins book transcending levels of consciousness.
Dr. Reese: (59:00)
Oh, anything David Hawkins is thumbs up. He was, he was quite interesting. Wasn't he?
Dr. Rosie: (59:07)
Dr. Reese: (59:08)
MD and PhD.
Dr. Rosie: (59:10)
Yeah. Yep. Constant transf.
Dr. Reese: (59:13)
Yeah. Transformation in his, I think around the age of 40.
Dr. Rosie: (59:18)
Yeah. Yeah. But he had had some experiences as a kid that kind of was the foundation to all of that happening and alcoholic issues and kinds of interesting things. So,
Dr. Reese: (59:29)
Yeah. And, but the interesting, the, the fun thing to see with him is he maintained his career even after his awakening. Yeah. And not everyone does that.
Dr. Rosie: (59:39)
Dr. Reese: (59:40)
Something, yeah. Some people end up in the mountains or something
Dr. Rosie: (59:42)
Well, and he's really clear about that in, in transcending levels of consciousness. And he says, when you get past 600, you're gonna need help. It was, it was a challenge to read that because it's like, wait a second. I'm in, I live alone, on the side of a mountain. I don't know how I'm gonna get somebody to, you know, that kind of thing. But I don't think that's necessary because I don't plan to stop working. And I don't plan. And from the other readings, his teachings is one, one thing, that's his experience, but he's also basically showed that that's not accurate. And since he continues to continued until he died, until he passed over to be, you know, working. And I think I think work two, two things well more than two, but the two biggies is keep working and keep being creative. Like what's the creative outlet for you in, in your expression of self, it might be basket weaving. It could be, I don't
Dr. Reese: (01:00:42)
Dr. Rosie: (01:00:43)
Kniting I love knitting. I like painting. I like writing all of the things, anything, but the creative is what's gonna keep, keep you li alive. And, and, and vital. I think those two things keep working, be in nature as much as you can.
Dr. Reese: (01:01:01)
Right? Well, it's been a pleasure talking to you today.
Dr. Rosie: (01:01:03)
Thank you, Kevin. It's nice to talk to you too.
Speaker 2: (01:01:07)
Thanks for listening to inner peace with Dr. Reese. If this episode opened your heart, feel free to share on social media and tell your loved ones. Also be sure to subscribe. So you never miss an episode until next time may peace be with you.